Though even if they were not, you all give me too much credit. I can pull up someone who desires to be helped. Those who simply need to be pushed onto a different path.
But when it comes to those who have trouble at finding worth in themselves or are stubbornly set on their path, well, I've watched more than one falter and fall.
Hmmm...I dunno. The philosophies, yes, that's fair, and I do not mean to undermine the wisdom of your latter point. It isn't that I disagree with that, to be clear. It isn't that I think you're infallible either, far from it. But...how do I put this...
You're very kind. You care at your core, everything you do falls back to that. That's kind of your whole thing. And Vivi...needs to feel connected to people. To love and be loved. All that other stuff isn't unimportant but it's also...just noise. Static. It just needs to be fine-tuned is all, to find the right wavelength.
I dunno. I'm not saying it'll be easy, but I guess I just have faith that you'll work it out, and that you're more capable than you think you are.
[She starts a little, as though she almost forgets he was there at all]
Oh, uh, I do, but you weren't really asking for any of that were you? Sorry.
[She rubs the back of her head sheepishly. She's silent a moment, considering, but no she really does want to say it.]
Buuuut one last thing, since I'm already here. [She rolls her eyes at herself.] You're a problem solver and there's the rub, ironically. By trying to solve it conventionally you're only going to create more problems. He'd be grateful for the help, but that would just be one more tally on how you're so much more capable than he is. You know you're not infallible, but consider this from Vivi's perspective. You have all the memories, all the knowledge, all the answers.
Yes, you have your reasons and yes, he could stand to be more patient, but at the end of the day, it's not hard to understand why he's like that--he's so desperate to try and catch up to you.
He just wants to be your friend.
And he can't do that when things remain so unbalanced between you, even if you've both discarded expectations of the other. I said it wasn't going to be easy, and I meant it. I cannot begin to imagine everything you've been through, and I'm not about to trivialise it, and who you let in is your choice, obviously. But the best way to bridge the gap, I think, is if you're someone he can relate to a little better. If you're--wait for it--vulnerable.
[She makes a face, and then smiles wryly as she brings her thumb and forefinger close together without touching, and then rubs them together like she's seasoning something.]
Just a bit. A pinch. A sprinkle, as a treat. At least to start.
[The first part he listens, too. It's good advice and she can clearly see it on his face. Have him solve problems. Check! At the second there is something uncharitable that crosses his features. It takes him a moment to reign it in before he sighs.]
Your first point has merit. I will see how to best utilize it.
As for your second...
I have been told this many times before by others. And being slightly vulnerable does not help. That I already provide. What you are truly asking for is something deeper.
When I had that particularly bad game, we had a lot of visitors. I received more than one comment that my distress made them feel closer or at least I was more open. Does my honesty and sincerity at other times count for so little? Why is it that despair brings us closer but happiness felt so strongly does not?
So then I begin to question why does the vulnerability, the sadness the path preferred. And I don't like the answers I've come up with.
Whatever you think or feel is perfectly valid and I do want to hear it because you've already provided something for me to chew on that I did not consider. But it's not that your sincerity and honesty don't count for anything. You could just easily not bother. They matter, please do not think otherwise. [She means to sound more reassuring than scolding.]
They're just different things. Happiness does bring people together, absolutely, but so can negative things. It's all about dimensions. People have them and so relationships must, as well. It isn't that anyone wants you to or delights in your suffering, but they want to be there for you when it happens, to know that they can be trusted to help you through difficult times, even if it just means listening or being there, and that goes double for if you've helped them and continue to. Relationships need to be give and take, and ones that only share in the good aren't terribly deep.
Even among the Ascians, I tended to work alone forgoing the model of paired work. There is that which I hide from Cosmo.
Difficult games are one thing, but I don't think that is what you are asking. I worry he pushes himself too far. He has his own pain and worrying that he must work through, and he can't even use my own difficulties as a distraction so tightly entwined that they are.
[she will just pretend she knows what an ascian is because it's not something he's discussed with her--something to come back to later, perhaps. Hearing that he hides things from Cosmo does surprise her but it also doesn't, or perhaps it's easier to say it's a surprise that she takes quickly in stride. She loves Emet-Selch, she means that, but there's so much about him that she does not know.]
He does, yes, but he is resilient, more than he gives himself credit for.
[She thinks this is a conversation that is very much needed, but, privately, she cannot deny her own hypocrisy in having it. She will resolve to do better, later, right now, she is focused on the dialogue.]
Let's take a step back. You mention his pain and worrying. What do you think he worries about?
I do not mean to imply he is not resilient, but some events are far too harrowing that even those most resilient will bend and break.
Not feeling as if he has a place he belongs is chief among them, but delving into the horrors of what befell our star... well, he will brace himself for it eventually, but with no memories it does seem too much, doesn't it?
You're very right on all points and I understand where you're coming from, but in trying to spare him further pain you're denying him a part of yourself. Which is completely up to you, but he is so driven by emotional connection and attachment that I have no doubt that he'd always what to know what ails you when it does. To be there for you.
I'm not advocating that you share everything of yourself, people have their secrets and are entitled to them, but too many withheld hurts can be...isolating, I suppose.
[She sounds a little guilty for a moment. Blink and you'll miss it.]
Saying it is because I am only trying to spare him further pain would be incorrect. There are even those memories which I do not desire to revisit. So in a sense I am protecting myself.
And perhaps that is the crux of the problem. I have told him in general strokes of our past, but perhaps the finer details I am not ready to discuss are because of myself rather than him.
Though you sound as if you are coming to a revelation on your own.
Then pardon my presumption then, you are absolutely allowed to do so.
[She says and she means but how to bridge the gap. She puts a hand to her mouth in thought as she ponders this quandary, removing it with a hum.]
...Something I've known for a while, but still struggle with. But that aside, what was your earlier interpretation of how people felt closer to you when you were suffering?
Not at all. You are wise for your years, and I've been rather used to arguing for the sake of it. Many of your points ring true, and I will take them to heart.
It's about being useful, isn't it? Validating one's own existence by being their to help others not for their sake, but for one's own. The suffering of another a foil for such validation.
An exceedingly cruel take, I know, but I can see it because I've done it in the long, long past. Values my perceived usefulness to others over actually caring. How surly I was for no reason other than pride.
Cruel, yes, and I would ask you to have a little more faith, not even in everyone, because you're reasonably and understandably particular, but just in those that you have chosen to keep by you. But you're not entirely wrong, either. It doesn't have to be a mutually exclusive concept. It can be validating to know you can help someone, yes, but that does not mean it is entirely rooted in self-serving ego, devoid of compassion and care. That you are merely an object to satisfy, utterly incidental. The people around you care about you for you, and want to help you when you need it.
[She's been looking at him this long while but her gaze shifts its focus a little looking at him, but looking past him as well as though she might glean a glimpse of who he was in days gone by, to make sense of his words now.]
I do not believe it is fully intentional. In fact, it is not. But it certainly felt like it after that game. As I said, it was an uncharitable thought.
For Levity and I, I don't believe we are quite there. Seeing you as you say. Echoes of ghosts and former expectations yet haunt us still. We are making strides, improving each step of the way. And perhaps we will never truly be rid of them.
[He tilts his head at her gaze.]
Even immortals do not have as much time as they think. So do not hesitate, Lily. You might not be gifted with a second chance.
I see. Well, I am sorry that you had more unpleasant feelings on top of everything else.
[Even if it that wasn't what people felt, she's sure of that, it's how he felt, and that is valid, and she is sorry for that burden.
It's sad, though, that that is the conclusion he came to.]
Making strides is excellent. I have every faith. It might not be exactly what you had, but that it could still be very worthwhile.
[He says that even immortals don't have as much time, and she understands the sentiment behind his words, but it also seems...beyond her comprehension when as far she knows, her life will be as a candle, burning on both ends until it's snuffed out. She crushes a rising pang of envy underfoot before it can break ground and looks to the stars.]
We will navigate it in time. And as you said there is an imbalance that needs to be accounted for.
[He laughs.]
Perhaps this old man has been rambling too long. I do dearly hope we will not all disappear so soon, but it never hurts to be forward with your thoughts.
You should be busy as well. Despites the circumstances there is much to learn, to see, and ever were you the social one. Though I do appreciate you enjoy the stars from time to time as well.
And I think you mistake 'busy' for 'resting', but you can call on me should you need an ear.
Outside of the rather delightful proposal, is there ought else bothering you?
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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Though even if they were not, you all give me too much credit. I can pull up someone who desires to be helped. Those who simply need to be pushed onto a different path.
But when it comes to those who have trouble at finding worth in themselves or are stubbornly set on their path, well, I've watched more than one falter and fall.
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You're very kind. You care at your core, everything you do falls back to that. That's kind of your whole thing. And Vivi...needs to feel connected to people. To love and be loved. All that other stuff isn't unimportant but it's also...just noise. Static. It just needs to be fine-tuned is all, to find the right wavelength.
I dunno. I'm not saying it'll be easy, but I guess I just have faith that you'll work it out, and that you're more capable than you think you are.
[She's looking ahead, deeply thoughtful.]
Hmm...
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It seems you have more thoughts on the subject.
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Oh, uh, I do, but you weren't really asking for any of that were you? Sorry.
[She rubs the back of her head sheepishly. She's silent a moment, considering, but no she really does want to say it.]
Buuuut one last thing, since I'm already here. [She rolls her eyes at herself.] You're a problem solver and there's the rub, ironically. By trying to solve it conventionally you're only going to create more problems. He'd be grateful for the help, but that would just be one more tally on how you're so much more capable than he is. You know you're not infallible, but consider this from Vivi's perspective. You have all the memories, all the knowledge, all the answers.
Yes, you have your reasons and yes, he could stand to be more patient, but at the end of the day, it's not hard to understand why he's like that--he's so desperate to try and catch up to you.
He just wants to be your friend.
And he can't do that when things remain so unbalanced between you, even if you've both discarded expectations of the other. I said it wasn't going to be easy, and I meant it. I cannot begin to imagine everything you've been through, and I'm not about to trivialise it, and who you let in is your choice, obviously. But the best way to bridge the gap, I think, is if you're someone he can relate to a little better. If you're--wait for it--vulnerable.
[She makes a face, and then smiles wryly as she brings her thumb and forefinger close together without touching, and then rubs them together like she's seasoning something.]
Just a bit. A pinch. A sprinkle, as a treat. At least to start.
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I will take it under advisement.
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As for your second...
I have been told this many times before by others. And being slightly vulnerable does not help. That I already provide. What you are truly asking for is something deeper.
When I had that particularly bad game, we had a lot of visitors. I received more than one comment that my distress made them feel closer or at least I was more open. Does my honesty and sincerity at other times count for so little? Why is it that despair brings us closer but happiness felt so strongly does not?
So then I begin to question why does the vulnerability, the sadness the path preferred. And I don't like the answers I've come up with.
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What conclusions have you come to?
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They're just different things. Happiness does bring people together, absolutely, but so can negative things. It's all about dimensions. People have them and so relationships must, as well. It isn't that anyone wants you to or delights in your suffering, but they want to be there for you when it happens, to know that they can be trusted to help you through difficult times, even if it just means listening or being there, and that goes double for if you've helped them and continue to. Relationships need to be give and take, and ones that only share in the good aren't terribly deep.
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Difficult games are one thing, but I don't think that is what you are asking. I worry he pushes himself too far. He has his own pain and worrying that he must work through, and he can't even use my own difficulties as a distraction so tightly entwined that they are.
Thus the weight simply compounds.
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He does, yes, but he is resilient, more than he gives himself credit for.
[She thinks this is a conversation that is very much needed, but, privately, she cannot deny her own hypocrisy in having it. She will resolve to do better, later, right now, she is focused on the dialogue.]
Let's take a step back. You mention his pain and worrying. What do you think he worries about?
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Not feeling as if he has a place he belongs is chief among them, but delving into the horrors of what befell our star... well, he will brace himself for it eventually, but with no memories it does seem too much, doesn't it?
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I'm not advocating that you share everything of yourself, people have their secrets and are entitled to them, but too many withheld hurts can be...isolating, I suppose.
[She sounds a little guilty for a moment. Blink and you'll miss it.]
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And perhaps that is the crux of the problem. I have told him in general strokes of our past, but perhaps the finer details I am not ready to discuss are because of myself rather than him.
Though you sound as if you are coming to a revelation on your own.
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[She says and she means but how to bridge the gap. She puts a hand to her mouth in thought as she ponders this quandary, removing it with a hum.]
...Something I've known for a while, but still struggle with. But that aside, what was your earlier interpretation of how people felt closer to you when you were suffering?
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Not at all. You are wise for your years, and I've been rather used to arguing for the sake of it. Many of your points ring true, and I will take them to heart.
It's about being useful, isn't it? Validating one's own existence by being their to help others not for their sake, but for one's own. The suffering of another a foil for such validation.
An exceedingly cruel take, I know, but I can see it because I've done it in the long, long past. Values my perceived usefulness to others over actually caring. How surly I was for no reason other than pride.
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Cruel, yes, and I would ask you to have a little more faith, not even in everyone, because you're reasonably and understandably particular, but just in those that you have chosen to keep by you. But you're not entirely wrong, either. It doesn't have to be a mutually exclusive concept. It can be validating to know you can help someone, yes, but that does not mean it is entirely rooted in self-serving ego, devoid of compassion and care. That you are merely an object to satisfy, utterly incidental. The people around you care about you for you, and want to help you when you need it.
[She's been looking at him this long while but her gaze shifts its focus a little looking at him, but looking past him as well as though she might glean a glimpse of who he was in days gone by, to make sense of his words now.]
That is strange to think.
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For Levity and I, I don't believe we are quite there. Seeing you as you say. Echoes of ghosts and former expectations yet haunt us still. We are making strides, improving each step of the way. And perhaps we will never truly be rid of them.
[He tilts his head at her gaze.]
Even immortals do not have as much time as they think. So do not hesitate, Lily. You might not be gifted with a second chance.
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[Even if it that wasn't what people felt, she's sure of that, it's how he felt, and that is valid, and she is sorry for that burden.
It's sad, though, that that is the conclusion he came to.]
Making strides is excellent. I have every faith. It might not be exactly what you had, but that it could still be very worthwhile.
[He says that even immortals don't have as much time, and she understands the sentiment behind his words, but it also seems...beyond her comprehension when as far she knows, her life will be as a candle, burning on both ends until it's snuffed out. She crushes a rising pang of envy underfoot before it can break ground and looks to the stars.]
Thanks, you know. For being here.
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It could never be exactly the same. No matter how we both desire it.
[He does quirk his head.]
And why the sudden thanks?
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[Can't be the same, huh. That goes without saying, but she frowns for a moment.]
Guess there's only trying to find out what you two can have now, going forward. [She tilts her head in kind, mirroring him.]
Because I appreciate you, and I try not to take anything I've been stupid lucky to get for granted. I could lose it all at a moment's notice.
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[He laughs.]
Perhaps this old man has been rambling too long. I do dearly hope we will not all disappear so soon, but it never hurts to be forward with your thoughts.
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I like listening to and spending time with you! I know you can often be busy, so...
[she blushes, looking a little shy.]
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And I think you mistake 'busy' for 'resting', but you can call on me should you need an ear.
Outside of the rather delightful proposal, is there ought else bothering you?
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